6 replies on “What do you think Tocqueville would make of this?”
Tocqueville would likely see this multileveled school system as an extension of his vision of “a community [who] are classed according to rank, profession, or birth”. This establishment is still existing in a democracy where individuals possess the same rights and liberties, in reality, there are still major differences in America due to the tiers of varying opportunity.
While the intention of the school systems in NYC is to provide those with more potential a better opportunity to reach it, in reality, the systems may be ignoring subtle prejudices in race and ethnicity. They also may only take a closer look to those who are either raised in a more supportive and academically encouraging environment when there are those in communities that are not as supportive and need that support from the public school system. The desire of the individuals to correct the viewed inequality is the exact definition of human improvement for themselves and their own community.
It is important to state that this example is rather minuscule and pales in comparison to the degree of issues for equality that was being fought for during Tocqueville’s lifetime. This type of discrepancy would most likely be laughed at all those years ago. But this protest and movement are most certainly founded in the spirit of Tocqueville’s beliefs. And if he was a modern thinker he would most likely be highly supportive of this endeavor.
How do we know that the inequality evident in different educational performance and outcomes is “due to the tiers of varying opportunity”?
To respond to your question of whether the inequality evident in different educational performance and outcomes is “due to the tiers of varying opportunity?” is answered simply from the fact that children in the lower class aren’t exposed to the same educational tools as those children in the upper class. From a very young age children in the upper class are exposed to more words and books. Lower class children aren’t given the same opportunity from birth. This idea is referred to as the “word gap” and is a prime example of varying opportunity.
After the enlightening discussion of Alexis de Tocqueville and his ideas in class today, I have come to understand that he presents his ideas about equality/democracy and aristocracy rather objectively. Although he comes from France, an aristocracy, he relays and describes each system in a nonpartisan manner. In fact, he acknowledges that while equality allows for individuality, human ambition, and indefinite improvement, an aristocracy is advantageous considering that it fosters a stable and unified society. Therefore, I believe that Tocqueville would have understood this article through both of these lenses. As is, the NYC school system is currently representative of an aristocracy. Those who are considered “gifted” are of higher rank, and therefore receive a superior education, while those who are not considered gifted receive a lesser education. He would view this as placing people into castes. As a result, each individual would feel comfortable in their own caste and feel less motivated to improve individually. From this evolves a strong sense of synthesis. However, considering that this issue takes place in America, a democratic country, I feel that he would argue that creating equal education for all would align more with American values. This would allow for each individual to recognize their ability for improvement and to strive for more. Unfortunately, as the article represents, this is rather difficult to implement considering the backlash from the public. I am interested to see the stance that Mr. de Blasio takes on the suggestion in the near future.
Through the New York public school system, de Tocqueville would think of the system of schools as a way of segregating people into his view of an aristocratic society. I think that this quote from The New York times about Mayor de Blasio resonates with what de Tocqueville understands about the class structure in an aristocratic society, “Though Mr. de Blasio has vowed to create a school system where the idea of ‘good schools’ and ‘bad schools’ becomes obsolete, dozens of schools are extremely low-performing, and many more are struggling.” This is very interesting because it relates to the segregated approach of the schools in New York and how what de Tocqueville wrote almost 200 years ago still resonates in our society today. De Tocqueville would agree with that because of the segregation, the lower classes would have nowhere to go, they would be stuck in their class and not be able to get out. Also because the public schools are determined based on where the students live, they are literally born into the “good” or “bad” school system, just like the members of any aristocratic society.
Alexis de Tocqueville’s focuses his ideas around the image of stationary classes. He explains that people are born into a class and there is a stagnate behavior once in your class. I feel that this article on the public-school system in NYC is a perfect example to show a modern representation of what Tocqueville was saying in Chapter 8. The NYC public school system is divided into districts which have been sectioned off according to where you live with in the city. This would seem to be fair to those on the outside, to be able to give everyone a chance at an equal education. Yet if you look at the social classes and inequality in NYC you will find that the districts people live in are assigned to them by economic status, and race. If you are in the lower class and or black/hispanic, you will live in worse areas then if you are labeled as middle/upper class and or white. These districts seem to have been systematically drawn to keep the richer kids together in school while the ‘poorer’ kids are stuck in underfunded schools. This dilemma shows that Tocqueville was right in saying that the classes are stagnant, because once you are in the public school system in the underfunded areas you will enter the vicious cycle of poor education leading to lower income in the future, causing you to say in that area. Although the NYC public school system wants to change this issue, they are hesitant due to the fact that the kids in the richer districts will withdraw from their schools and enter private schools elsewhere, further lowering the income for the schools.
6 replies on “What do you think Tocqueville would make of this?”
Tocqueville would likely see this multileveled school system as an extension of his vision of “a community [who] are classed according to rank, profession, or birth”. This establishment is still existing in a democracy where individuals possess the same rights and liberties, in reality, there are still major differences in America due to the tiers of varying opportunity.
While the intention of the school systems in NYC is to provide those with more potential a better opportunity to reach it, in reality, the systems may be ignoring subtle prejudices in race and ethnicity. They also may only take a closer look to those who are either raised in a more supportive and academically encouraging environment when there are those in communities that are not as supportive and need that support from the public school system. The desire of the individuals to correct the viewed inequality is the exact definition of human improvement for themselves and their own community.
It is important to state that this example is rather minuscule and pales in comparison to the degree of issues for equality that was being fought for during Tocqueville’s lifetime. This type of discrepancy would most likely be laughed at all those years ago. But this protest and movement are most certainly founded in the spirit of Tocqueville’s beliefs. And if he was a modern thinker he would most likely be highly supportive of this endeavor.
How do we know that the inequality evident in different educational performance and outcomes is “due to the tiers of varying opportunity”?
To respond to your question of whether the inequality evident in different educational performance and outcomes is “due to the tiers of varying opportunity?” is answered simply from the fact that children in the lower class aren’t exposed to the same educational tools as those children in the upper class. From a very young age children in the upper class are exposed to more words and books. Lower class children aren’t given the same opportunity from birth. This idea is referred to as the “word gap” and is a prime example of varying opportunity.
After the enlightening discussion of Alexis de Tocqueville and his ideas in class today, I have come to understand that he presents his ideas about equality/democracy and aristocracy rather objectively. Although he comes from France, an aristocracy, he relays and describes each system in a nonpartisan manner. In fact, he acknowledges that while equality allows for individuality, human ambition, and indefinite improvement, an aristocracy is advantageous considering that it fosters a stable and unified society. Therefore, I believe that Tocqueville would have understood this article through both of these lenses. As is, the NYC school system is currently representative of an aristocracy. Those who are considered “gifted” are of higher rank, and therefore receive a superior education, while those who are not considered gifted receive a lesser education. He would view this as placing people into castes. As a result, each individual would feel comfortable in their own caste and feel less motivated to improve individually. From this evolves a strong sense of synthesis. However, considering that this issue takes place in America, a democratic country, I feel that he would argue that creating equal education for all would align more with American values. This would allow for each individual to recognize their ability for improvement and to strive for more. Unfortunately, as the article represents, this is rather difficult to implement considering the backlash from the public. I am interested to see the stance that Mr. de Blasio takes on the suggestion in the near future.
Through the New York public school system, de Tocqueville would think of the system of schools as a way of segregating people into his view of an aristocratic society. I think that this quote from The New York times about Mayor de Blasio resonates with what de Tocqueville understands about the class structure in an aristocratic society, “Though Mr. de Blasio has vowed to create a school system where the idea of ‘good schools’ and ‘bad schools’ becomes obsolete, dozens of schools are extremely low-performing, and many more are struggling.” This is very interesting because it relates to the segregated approach of the schools in New York and how what de Tocqueville wrote almost 200 years ago still resonates in our society today. De Tocqueville would agree with that because of the segregation, the lower classes would have nowhere to go, they would be stuck in their class and not be able to get out. Also because the public schools are determined based on where the students live, they are literally born into the “good” or “bad” school system, just like the members of any aristocratic society.
Alexis de Tocqueville’s focuses his ideas around the image of stationary classes. He explains that people are born into a class and there is a stagnate behavior once in your class. I feel that this article on the public-school system in NYC is a perfect example to show a modern representation of what Tocqueville was saying in Chapter 8. The NYC public school system is divided into districts which have been sectioned off according to where you live with in the city. This would seem to be fair to those on the outside, to be able to give everyone a chance at an equal education. Yet if you look at the social classes and inequality in NYC you will find that the districts people live in are assigned to them by economic status, and race. If you are in the lower class and or black/hispanic, you will live in worse areas then if you are labeled as middle/upper class and or white. These districts seem to have been systematically drawn to keep the richer kids together in school while the ‘poorer’ kids are stuck in underfunded schools. This dilemma shows that Tocqueville was right in saying that the classes are stagnant, because once you are in the public school system in the underfunded areas you will enter the vicious cycle of poor education leading to lower income in the future, causing you to say in that area. Although the NYC public school system wants to change this issue, they are hesitant due to the fact that the kids in the richer districts will withdraw from their schools and enter private schools elsewhere, further lowering the income for the schools.